Forcing more player interactions?

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Forcing more player interactions?

Postby Vanto » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:22 pm

So we all know that Nation Capitals are pretty safe at the moment and you can easily farm things like trees, and fuel. However I was thinking if we could get people to be more encouraged to use non safe sectors to actually advance themselves.

Possible changes that I think would improve the gameplay, the reasons it would do so and their pros/cons:

Nation Capitals only allow one Dispersion Generators.
The problem with fuel that it is so easy to get currently. This would mean that its just a chore instead of an actual gameplay element, you mine it and put it in your ship without any dangers. If there could only be one, or maybe even a different generator that would only give a limited one just in case the player completely runs out of fuel. For example it would be like the current generator but would only allow a maximum tank of 5x5x5 (just a rough value). This would still give 25fuel and if people needed fuel desperately they could stand there and farm it, however it would mean that people have to go out and place generators in sectors where other people can stop them from doing so. This would overall increase the interactivity between players and nation as well as raising the price of fuel. This could mean that it takes a bit harder for new players to start of in their nations, however they are not likely to be owning massive ships that they cannot power from the new capital generator.

Jump gate improvements
Currently going into sectors is kind of gamble sometimes since you never know if that claimed sector has all the missile pods looking at that. For this reason I believe that using jump gates could make the jumping ship invulnerable along with its crew. This would still make jump gate camping kind of effective however it will still mean that the defenders actually get a chance to at least see what killed them. Cons might be that people could potentially take a jump to make them invulnerable for a few seconds, however the protection would apply to the boarding party too. This would also help with ice biomes since they reduce FPS on entering them.

Next improvement that I suggest is first of all making jumps require that the ship has 0 Speed not 0 Thrust. This would mean that people could delay escaping ships. In addition to this change ships should be prevented from jumping if they take damage for a few seconds to stop people from just gate hopping constantly in battle. This is an annoying issue since sometimes the enemy will just have a better ship and they start taking the same gate just to stop people from attacking them and hoping they get a better spawn so they could escape. I think would not a con, maybe would be annoying to flee from missile pods?

I am happy to discuss any of these suggestions so please tell me what you think!
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Re: Forcing more player interactions?

Postby Sssuperguy » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:55 pm

Personally, what I believe that Ben is going for is to first get all the content and gameplay mechanics in, then start balancing everything. We all know that SN has quite a few issues in this regard, but they're generally screwed up again and again with updates so it makes little sense to resolve them before breaking them again. Alternately, the game could already be balanced for the content of its planned release, and so it will eventually fit together the way it already is.
That doesn't mean the game should stay imbalanced indefinitely, however. If there will be any coming changes, I agree that it should be to stop people from camping in their capitals.
Any changes should be devoted to this aspect.. Not minor things like mining siphons to gather resources which people already have an abundance of due to the ship factory. Even more than bosses which only draw people out at certain occasions. Without some sort of huge alteration or restriction, people will probably continue camping until the player base is quite large.
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Re: Forcing more player interactions?

Postby aDisturbedJawa » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:45 pm

I agree with the ideas mentioned in the comment above and the main post. I think personally jump gates should be handled how eve handles them, in the sense that when a ship jumps in while it is stationary it is completely invisible for a short time(10 seconds) and invincible for a whole minute(I don't think these time scales would necessarily work in sky nations due to the limited area sizes and also the fact that in eve it is possible to warp inhibit and thus the long invulnerability is nothing if you aren't fast enough to leave the range of it in that time). On top of this I feel that there should be a system in place that prevents or in someway stops a ship from escaping, as with the way the speed works a huge ship with enough thrusters can easily be on par with a smaller ship with less guns and armor in terms of speed. I was thinking of a system like this:
1) If you are damaged (either on foot or your vessel is) then there is a cooldown that will prevent the ship from jumping out for a while or at least delays it (think something like elite dangerous' "Mass locked" feature but exclusive to damage. This means that if a ship is hit it'll have a timer applied to it meaning it has to evade for a certain time before it can jump successfully.
2) If you harm a player, who has not harmed you first, you get the 'hostile' status which means that you cannot return to a safe zone without being fired upon by defenses or something. This means dipping in and out of a safe zone is impossible from both parties, and will also mean that spawn camping and the likes becomes harder as there would be NPC's or turrets making it much harder, but not impossible. Similarly when the hostile party fires and hits, he too can not leave for a fixed time(and perhaps the timers can be removed by killing the other players?)
3) There should be a way, particularly on big ships, to cripple or in someway inhibit them when a certain amount of damage global to the ship has been applied or at the very least add more weakspots to shoot at to cripple. As right now there is only the engines to really focus on a hostile to slow them down enough to board and kill the pilot. I think that there should be a way to take out a ship from a ship just as easily or just slightly harder than it is to jump on and shotgun in.

These are just a few thoughts I have had on the subject, and I know balancing is a evil thing indeed, and when adding new features it is definitely not easy but just throwing these ideas out here to see what sticks.

~Jawa
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Re: Forcing more player interactions?

Postby Sssuperguy » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:19 am

Hey all- it's been a long time now, but I've still been following the development of SN every day.

So I just had a thought of how to analyze this situation, I guess, and wanted to share. When it comes to multiplayer interaction, what it likely boils down to is the motive that each player would have for leaving his or her capital. The main point of my argument is that, because there are hardly any scarce resources which can't be acquired in capitals, players are not inclined to go into the outside world. Because the small playerbase is an obvious factor as well, I won't discuss it.
Essentially all of the resources which can be found outside of capitals can also be created inside capitals due to the ship constructor. While the cost of using the constructor has increased lately, it has not restricted the types of materials which can be created through it. While this may be too expensive for less wealthy nations to exploit, there is a small overall demand for resources in biomes because they are all quite common. At the same time, the merchant cat makes it even easier to gain any required resources.
While bosses provide some resources which cannot be gained through normal gameplay, the uses of these materials are specific enough that they are not necessarily valuable. While a spray can, gravity weapon and merchant horn are all useful tools, no nation requires them to operate and the boss fights themselves are infrequent.
Another resource to consider is time. In all of the cases I can think of, it is more time efficient and safer for a nation to operate within their capital than to operate outside of it. This includes things like mining fuel and resources, due to the ship constructor.
Lastly, while there are features available to nations (such as system claims) outside of their capitals, they are largely uninteresting or useful. When it comes to system claims, their only current purpose is to create resources which can be already created in capitals with less time and effort. On a side note, the number of members in a nation currently dictates the max number of claimed systems. I propose the opposite- have a member cap on nations which can only be increased by owning more and more territory.
In the long run, the main motive for players to leave their capitals is to either fuel a fledgling nation, fight a boss or to seek PvP. In the latter case, nobody would have anything terribly valuable worth fighting for, other than for fun.

I know that Ben is working on changes in this sort of area for the v1.0 update, so I am excited to see how it turns out.
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